Cosmic Ghost Rider: A Case Study in Ignoring Later Printings

by Take Root

ATTENTION: GOCOLLECT IS AWARE OF THE NEGATIVE RESPONSE ON THIS BLOG. WE HAVE RE-EDITED IT AND HAVE REACHED OUT TO THE WRITER AND THE EDITING TEAM TO PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING IN THE FUTURE. WE ARE A COMMUNITY OF SPECULATORS WHO ALL SHARE OPPOSING OPINIONS AND IT ISN’T RIGHT FOR ONE OF OUR WRITERS TO PUSH HIS/HER OPINION AS FACT RATHER THAN OPINION. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING IT TO OUR ATTENTION.gr-1024x512 Cosmic Ghost Rider: A Case Study in Ignoring Later Printings

There’s been a lot of speculation about 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and “n”th printings as of late. I’m not exactly sure as to why, but I’ll give you some reasons why I leave these for the readers and save my investing money for the first print.

The Value

Later printings of a key book tend to have higher values because there are fewer of them out there it makes them more valuable because of this scarcity. Scarcity always plays a role in the collectibility of anything, but what is the scarcity of exactly? Is it really worth more (sometimes hundreds) for a different cover? The story is the same.

Defining The First Appearance

My issue isn’t with the scarcity – it’s with people naming it a “First Appearance” when it comes to later printings of comic books. If a character is introduced in Comic Book #8, then Comic Book #8 FIRST PRINTING is his first appearance. If Comic Book #8 is released in August 2020 and the second printing is released in September 2020, then that second printing NOT the first appearance of the character to me. The character was already printed a month prior. Typically, these later printings come around because people heard about the character or comic after it was already introduced and the demand is higher than what had previously been printed.

Cosmic Ghost Rider

I love Cosmic Ghost Rider. I think he’s a great character and I think he’s going to be around the Marvel Universe for a while. Personally, I don’t see a good reason for him to ever enter the MCU; he’s just too out there and too different from the original Ghost Rider to really have any kind of continuity in the MCU. I wouldn’t bank on CGR being the next Iron Man, even though it’s a cool character.

The rise in Price of Later Thanos #13 Printings

Fellow GoCollect blogger, Matt Tuck, covered the rising price of later printings of Thanos #13. I’m going to show you the order of the comics and why I personally don’t like First Appearance being labeled on the later printings.

Release dates of Thanos #13, #14, and #15

If we look at the release dates of CGR’s first appearance in Thanos #13, you will see how later printings stack up to forthcoming issues.

thanos1-198x300 Cosmic Ghost Rider: A Case Study in Ignoring Later Printings

Thanos #13 1st Print

This book was released on November 22 of 2017. This makes it the first appearance of Cosmic Ghost Rider.

 

 

thanos2-193x300 Cosmic Ghost Rider: A Case Study in Ignoring Later Printings

Thanos #13 2nd Print

This book was released on December 31st of 2017. I don’t even think this is the first cover image of Thanos.

 

 

th3rd-195x300 Cosmic Ghost Rider: A Case Study in Ignoring Later Printings

Thanos #13 3rd Print

You might think this book came right on the heels of the 2nd print. Not quite. The third printing arrived on comic stands everywhere on April 20, 2018. That’s a serious time gap from the first printing.

 

th14-198x300 Cosmic Ghost Rider: A Case Study in Ignoring Later Printings

Thanos #14 1st Print

This book features Cosmic Ghost Rider going head to head with the Mad Titan right on the cover. If you are thinking this is CGR’s first cover appearance, then you’d be right. Thanos #14 came out December 27, 2017, predating Thanos #13 2nd Print by a few days and Thanos #13 3rd Print by months as the first comic book to feature CGR on the cover.

 

725919_thanos-15-192x300 Cosmic Ghost Rider: A Case Study in Ignoring Later Printings

Thanos #15 1st Print

This is the last example to show how later printings are marketed differently. Thanos #15 was released on January 24, 2018.

Let me reorganize these issues by their release date to make it visually easier:

Later Printings Release Dates

  1. November 22nd – Thanos #13
  2. December 27th – Thanos #14
  3. December 31st – Thanos #13 2nd Print
  4. January 24th – Thanos #15
  5. April 20th – Thanos #13 3rd Print

I don’t get it! Thanos #13 3rd Printing is not the first cover appearance of Cosmic Ghost Rider to me. It was released 4 months after Thanos #14. To the reader, yes – but as a collector, I don’t identify it as such.

Mislabeled Labels

My problem is when grading companies like CGC and CBCS add “1st Appearance of Who’sitnow” to a later printing. To me, it’s not. Again, for a reader it is. The first appearance (or cameo appearance) is the earliest date a comic book was released. They share a name, but the different cover makes it a different issue. So to me, it’s not the first appearance. For a grading company to add the First Appearance to a later print it sits weird with me. Technically it’s the first appearance… but also technically it’s not.

Later Printings Wrap-Up

That’s why these 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 10th, and 15th printings are worth nothing to me. They are reader copies that meet demand. And that’s fine, I’ll be right there paying the cover price for these issues, but I won’t be dropping C-notes anytime soon. And it’s also fine if you want to continue collecting these for the rare pieces that they are due to printing counts.

What are your thoughts on these? Why do you collect later printings? Do you consider these later printings to be First Appearances still?

 

GoCollect is the #1 comic book price guide for tracking sales data of all graded comic books in real-time. Fair market values are now at your fingertips. Check out all the features at www.gocollect.com

You may also like

53 comments

Tom Guilliams August 29, 2020 - 10:01 am

This was well written and I agree with it. However, sometimes I like a reprint just for the cool covers, regardless of resale value later.

This was the first blog of yours I’ve read. I’m going to check out your others. Have a great day.

Reply
Jeffrey Gonzalez August 29, 2020 - 11:53 am

Venom 3, 3rd print?

Reply
Rod August 29, 2020 - 10:18 am

How about the hundred different covers of Walking Dead #1 then? They are still being produced almost two decades later, and the series is done even. Maybe they won’t hold value (time will tell) but variant covers can be for collecting just as much as reading. Sure, they’re a money grab, but that doesn’t mean they’re worthless if people want to complete a collection. Scarcity and demand absolutely drive price. That doesn’t mean they have the same importance or value of the first printing, but I think people know that. I personally wish we could go back to the days of one cover per issue, but that isn’t going to happen. I know your article is targeted at speculators so maybe you have a point. Still, it doesn’t seem like a terrible idea to pick up some later printings of important issues if you’re ok with the price, regardless of when they are released. Plus, a c-note or even a grand isn’t a lot of money to some people. You don’t know who is buying or what their intentions are. As general investment advice, I guess I would reluctantly agree with you. There could be better choices out there. Some would advise against comics altogether. It’s still a personal choice though. Thanks for the article, and food for thought!

Reply
Jared August 29, 2020 - 2:38 pm

I completely disagree with you. Personally, I view issues by issue number, not the date it was released. So for Thor number 5 for example, I think Black Winter’s First Full Appearance is for all the printings of Thor number 5. With the most desirable being the soon-to-be-released Third Print.

This logic has been in place for decades, see Amazing Spider-Man 361. The second print has always been, and will always be, considered a Carnage First Full appearance.

It’s rather smug to say that once the entire market realizes and agrees with your opinion things will change. It won’t.

This market behavior towards modern later printings selling for more than first printings has been going on for a while. It’s essentially etched in stone at this point, especially when it comes to later printings that have the first appearance character on the cover.

And for good reason, a copy of a first appearance with the new character on the cover combined with a lower print run is a recipe to be the most desired book, and in turn, the most valuable.

Reply
Chris August 30, 2020 - 6:08 am

Respectfully, where do you get your ground to stand on making statements like this? “They’ll never hold their value.” Are you familiar with ASM 361, the second printing? The book is almost 30 years old, and though the 2nd printing will never be as valuable as the 1st print, it still sells for over 300 dollars in a 9.8, and you’ll be paying 80 to 100 for a high grade raw copy. You can state your “opinion” on if you believe 2nd, 3d, nth printings should be coined 1st appearances or not, but to sit here and state that they are merely “reader” copies, and that people need to “wise up,” and then you make that passive aggressive knock about “yes people do read comics…” You are merely pushing your own biased narrative. Market has dictated against everything you stated for decades, and your attempt to state a sour opinion as fact isn’t a good look for GoCollect.

Reply
J August 30, 2020 - 12:05 pm

Of course my narrative is biased, Chris, I’m writing it! All of these comments are biased. We are all trying to push forth our own ideas. I get the ground to stand on by looking through a lot of websites and seeing the hype build and build for these later printings. It’d be nice to know how many of the people arguing in this thread own later printings and how many own first printings. I didn’t think it was passive aggressive at all; I thought it was obviously aggressive. Hype is never really good for anything, and I wrote this post because I think the majority of these later printings are getting a whole lot of hype and I wouldn’t want my fellow comic-buying-friends to put any money into them at all. I’d also recommend against buying lots of other stuff too, if you’re interested.

Reply
Chris August 30, 2020 - 3:41 pm

The tone you took in your reply is completely different than the tone of your article. Like others said below, you are simply stating your bias “opinion” as fact. As a :journalist (and yes, I am giving that much grace here), there is a line of ethics that we should never cross when it comes to conveying fact vs bias opinion. You take a soap box stance and push your bias as fact. If you merely stated your OPINION as such, you wouldn’t be getting such push back right now. Also, I think in a lot of your replies, you’re simply defending your opinion with deflection because I think you might be realizing you may have RUSHED to this opinion without even doing enough research first. You generalize and lump extremes, for example, lumping ALL 2nd, 3rd etc printings into basically toilet paper, but then arguing in your comments that “certain 2nd printings are another animal.” No, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

This piece reeks of sensationalism without any sort of true statistical analysis to hold any real ground. If your bias opinion on these matters are truly out of good intention for the hobby, I would humbly advise you to recognize the power of your voice on this platform, and to know that good intentions can lead to a path to hell. Basically, with “great power comes great responsibility.” As a voice that speaks to this community and this hobby, I would remember that cliche line, and use your platform and biased opinions wisely.

Reply
Joe Berry August 29, 2020 - 2:49 pm

Just because it’s a late printing doesn’t make it NOT the first appearance. The story itself still contains the first appearance. And the reason the books your listing are sought after is because they feature the character on their cover of the the first appearance. I see both sides of the argument but agree they shouldn’t be worth more than 1st prints, but theres something to be said for print counts, and the covers can sometimes be more awesome. They are first appearances and collectible as such.

Reply
Frank L August 29, 2020 - 2:55 pm

This is a weird take, and completely subjective. This just isn’t how first appearances are established in comics, so to just claim otherwise is strange. First appearances are and have always been issue related.

If CGR’s first appearance is in Thanos 13, it’s always in the book Thanos 13. The second print of a book, which is the same book in the same series, doesn’t suddenly not contain his first appearance. No one says it has ever said something like “Carnage’s first appearance is in ASM 361, 1st Print, but not the second print.”

Typically, 1st appearances with the best representation of the character on the cover hold the most value, which is why the 2nd print of ASM 569 is still the most expensive copy, and I don’t see the 3rd print of Venom 3 going down any time soon when the comic collecting collective suddenly changes their mind about this. ?‍♂️

Reply
Jared August 29, 2020 - 5:11 pm

Jake your entire argument is centered around the comic being released at a future time. Now to suit your position, you’re putting a qualifier on how much time?

That’s ridiculous.

The comic community has spoken about this with their wallets for decades. This isn’t pump and dump related at all.

The comic community at large views first appearances by the number of the issue. Not the release date. End of story.

Reply
Jared August 29, 2020 - 5:27 pm

I was referring to the fact that they have spoken in the sense that they view additional printings as a First Appearance just the same.

I agree that second prints with the same art always sell for less. It’s still a first appearance though.

Marvel changing up the art for additional printings is a fairly new phenomenon. And since they have started changing the covers, the market clearly prefers a First Appearance with the new character on the cover over a First Printing.

Reply
Jared August 29, 2020 - 5:50 pm

The rules for basing value in collectables is universal.

Is it more desirable?

Is is it more scarce?

The value is not because of YouTube. It’s because these particular comics we’re discussing check both of those boxes.

I look forward to your future article. If can’t tell, I enjoy debating stuff like this. 🙂

You should add that poll though….

Reply
Jared August 29, 2020 - 5:17 pm

You should put a poll on this article with the question:

What would you rather have? A first print Venom 3 that has an approximate print run that is 700% larger and lacks the First Appearance Character on the cover? Or a Venom 3 Third Print that has an approximate print run that is approximately 85% less and has the first appearance character on the cover?

Reply
Jared August 29, 2020 - 5:28 pm

But it is, issue number wise. Frankie’s variant is for a later issue.

Reply
Rod August 29, 2020 - 7:35 pm

I love this question. As a collector, the answer is I’d want both. Speculators only need there to be a greater number of completist collectors (interested enough to pay up and hold) than copies printed for a desirable printing to maintain its value. The point of the article is that relative demand will drop because people (speculators and collectors) will no longer recognize a value in possession. For speculators, that value of possession requires that the holding will be worth more later— more and with more certainty than other possible investments. For fans today and in future, this isn’t necessary. The character and cover art only need to inspire desire to make it a part of them, for their brief time on Earth. Maybe all comic collectors are also speculators at heart, but I’ve heard it said that if you love what you collect, you can’t go wrong. If you just want to make a buck, I’m sure fans wouldn’t mind you letting them have a cheaper copy by investing in something else. If you insist, then you assume all risk that this blogger is warning against. No one has a crystal ball. You pay your money and you take your chances. The comic market is littered with formerly hot, scare issues that you can barely give away. Not the ones that have remained popular though. All the murky firsts are variably notable for different reasons and will fluctuate independently. Did you ever think a newsstand copy might be worth more than a direct market copy? Did they arrive in stores on exactly the same day? I don’t know. I really don’t care. Personally, I have a first printing of Venom 3 because I preordered it. I don’t have a 3rd, though I have considered it. I was put off by all the confusion with that and Frankie variant and if I even care about Knull. It is genius for publishers to advertise later printings without showing the cover. This clearly drives demand from speculators hoping something good will pop up. Local comic shops are speculators too, just trying to make money by satisfying their customers’ demand. Don’t burst everyone’s bubble by telling them their comics are destined for the dollar bin like cubic zirconium. Let them enjoy the luster and story, let the market play out, and go advise on something better! Like which artwork is better, for instance. That is also subjective, but opinions today will likely line up to thoughts in 20 years. This blog is a can of worms. I don’t think it will dissuade anyone with the money from following current market trends despite warnings. I do love the question though :).

Reply
J August 29, 2020 - 7:40 pm

A can of worms indeed! Rod, you are right on the money. All of this confusion is why I, too, stayed away from later printings. It’s a much larger market push by the industry to make later printings worth buying, despite their original intention to be reader copies. I’m just glad this opened up some discussion about these. More to come.

Thanks for your comment,

Reply
Frank L August 29, 2020 - 5:19 pm

But that isn’t true for ASM 569, which I mentioned. The book is 12 years old, and the 2nd print hasn’t plummeted in price; a 9.8 is still worth five times as much. What you’re saying just hasn’t been proven. No one has expressed concern at the time difference of printings, and the printing with the most representative cover of the character HAS historically held value.

Thanos 15 4th printing is another example of the Fallen One cover being worth more. I can almost guarantee you if Iron Man 55 had a reprint within a couple months with Thanos on the cover, especially with a lower print run, it would be worth more than the 1st print. What you seem to have left out is that printings happen because the book sold out, and book scarcity is a real thing. You simply saying it isn’t, doesn’t make it so. If collectors view the first appearance of Knull, with Knull on the cover and a lower print run, as more valuable…it’s more valuable.

The difference with ASM 361 is that, back then, the only difference in printings was a cover color (silver vs. gold, gold vs. black, etc.). This made subsequent printings inferior. Nowadays, subsequent printings are extremely collectible and can often represent the character they’re showcasing better than the 1st printing.

This post feels like a lot like “I want things to be a certain way, even though they’re not, and one day I think they will be,” but without any supporting evidence for it, or why it’s better.

Reply
Frank Lepore August 29, 2020 - 6:26 pm

It doesn’t matter if someone “wants them to be valuable” They ARE. More so than the earlier prints. You seem to consistently discount the reason, ascribing it only to things like “GoCollect bumps.” You said earlier that “Venom #3 3rd Printing is not the first cover appearance of Knull.” But It IS his 1st cover appearance on the actual book that IS his 1st appearance. Like, there are two crucial points here, that are being proven time and time again in recent comic book history, that you seem to be overlooking or circumventing.

1) A book is a character’s first appearance, regardless of printing. Venom #3 will always be the first appearance of Knull, because the story is the same regardless of when the book is printed. You seem to think that Knull “appeared” in August 2018, and every issue printed after that date is NOT his first appearance. You’re connecting an appearance to time rather than story or specific issue, which I’ve never seen anyone do, ever.

2) 1st appearances that are both lower in print run AND have the character in question’s first appearance on the cover, are worth more. Like, you can even see this in Hulk 180 and 181. Wolverine literally has a huge full page panel on the last page of Hulk 180, with him talking and introducing himself as Wolverine, but 181 is universally regarded as his 1st appearance.

I’ll give you that a ton of reprints aren’t worth anything close to the originals, but when you combine limited print runs AND the character in question being on the cover, you will more than likely have a higher valued book (Venom #3, Thanos #15, ASM #569), and for very obvious reasons.

Reply
Chris August 30, 2020 - 6:14 am

I see that you are trying to add context to your argument responding to multiple comments that prove your rant – in all honesty – a bit of a spew fest that doesn’t hold coherency. You state in the article, “2nd printings are nothing but cover priced readers (toilet paper),” But now you want to argue and state, “well I mean, I did say that, but actually it has to do with the amount of time it’s released from the 1st.” “The one’s that DO hold value are a different animal.” No. You don’t get to inject variables like this after you made a clear statement. You are basically dissecting your own argument to such an extent that it almost retracts it completely.

Reply
Chris August 30, 2020 - 4:19 pm

lol wow. I honestly think your ego is going to get the best of you with this one. You seem to be the type that can’t ever admit to being wrong, or even admit to anyone else’s viewpoints as catalysts that could change your perspective; rather, you talk circles around them, acting as if the context THEY brought to the table was a part of your ideology in the first place, and still try to find a way to twist it around on them to prove your original point.

Maybe I’m wrong, but boy is your rhetoric tiring. I’m just glad GoCollect keeps their ‘opinion pieces” to the blog section and separate from their database. Still, I encourage you to report your biases as opinion, and not as fact.

Reply
Jared August 29, 2020 - 7:39 pm

Jake, no one has ever done it because it makes no sense. The entire hobby views first appearances by issue number. This perspective has stood the test of time ever since second printings were invented. It’s a ridiculous argument.

Basically your argument is like saying water isn’t wet.

And as far as Frankie’s Venom 5 Skan variant goes, yes it was released at an earlier time. This topic actually was already debated back in the day.

Speaking for myself, I don’t care when it came out. I care about what issue it is. Venom 3 is an earlier issue. It also happens to be Knulls first full appearance.

Due to these factors, Venom 3 third print won the argument in a major way. Just look at eBay.

Reply
Jared August 29, 2020 - 8:26 pm

Let’s pretend I did care. Let’s say I did look at things from a time perspective.

Would I rather have a Venom 5 (nothing key about Venom 5, like at all) aside from this one variant containing Knull’s first time on a cover.

Or a Venom 3 Third Print First Appearance with Knull on the cover?

Even with time being the main consideration, Venom 3 third print is still the victor by almost anyone outside of you and maybe Chris who hasn’t collected in 20 years.

And Chris, these aren’t reprints per se. True Believers are reprints. In layman’s terms, these are more like variations imo.

Reply
Jared August 30, 2020 - 3:16 am

I didn’t say they are variants. I said they’re more like a variant than a reprint. And no, they do not say “reprint” on the cover. They say “second print” etc..

I believe the correct term is “additional printing.” They are part of the series.

When I hear “reprint” I think true believers. I think what Ivan said below, a borderline counterfeit.

Jake, you should check yourself. You’re stating your opinion as if it’s fact. You have an overwhelming amount of comments in here totally disagreeing with you about a second print not being a first appearance.

If it’s an additional printing of the same issue that contains a first appearance, in my opinion, and in the opinion of the majority of the hobby, it’s a first appearance.

See how I qualified that statement? Try it.

Also, from a protecting the hobby standpoint, I think these additional printings with different cover art is genius.

You hear some people say that comics today remind them of comics in the nineties. That this is a bubble and they’re afraid it’s going to pop.

My opinion about that is when you look at the nineties, when the bubble popped, it was clearly due to over production. They made way too many copies.

I think the additional printings is what makes that concern about today misguided. Additional printings enable Marvel to limit production of each print run as to not over produce.

And once in a while, when the stars align and you have the characters first appearance on the cover of an “additional printing” coupled with a low print run, you get the result of what we’ve been seeing with certain books.

You’re right to warn people about most additional printings not being worth chasing. But, I disagree when you lump in the one’s that are.

Reply
Vexsor August 30, 2020 - 5:27 am

It says “Variant Edition – Third Printing” on the cover of Venom 3 3rd… doesn’t say, “reprint”. Also, just for your future article you are talking about, Venom 3 3rd actually came out in September 2018, not November (as is listed in the book). So only a couple months after the 1st print and also maybe only a week after the Skan store variant. For me, it’s pretty easy to see why Venom 3 3rd is valuable and sought after. It has the first appearance in the guts and has a great cover. It’s rise is not due to pump and dump (not saying that isn’t happening with most later printings though – example Thor 5 3rd print) and I reckon in the future if anyone is interested in buying the first appearance of Knull it will probably be the second most sought after book (after the 1:25).

Reply
Frank Lepore August 30, 2020 - 11:59 am

I think people would have much less of an issue with this post if you said something like “In my opinion, I believe…” and went on to state that books coming out months later at the same issue number are somehow, unconventionally, no longer 1st appearances. But instead you stated it as fact, implying everyone else in the entire comic world is incorrect, and you’re simply informing them. If this was just a personal idea you were proposing, I think it would have been received a lot better than the way you currently stated it as gospel that we were all unaware of.

It’s just a little off putting the way you say things like, “there’s a common misconception,” like everyone else in the entire comic world simply doesn’t know about this way to judge 1st appearances that you just created right now, and have thus been doing it incorrectly.

Reply
Chris August 30, 2020 - 3:27 pm

Is that “large” population that wants no part of them the ones that didn’t get their hands on them and now they are just butt hurt? And also, that “large” population? I actually think is a very small minority but just seem to have the loudest voices when they throw their fits.

Reply
Chris Blanc August 29, 2020 - 7:39 pm

I’m a returnee to comics after selling my entire collection of some 10,000 issues a year ago to go travelling and now forced back home because of the stupid virus. I hadn’t bought any comics (apart from Sandman Overture) for 20 years though.

Wow how things have changed! The reprints, the multiple covers (ok, they did this for some big issues, xmen etc back then, but it was rarer) and the price of slabbed books is all insane!

I’ve been buying comics just to sell really. Got good prices on most of the ‘hot’ comics and am making a steady profit. For me, if I can buy a few copies of Thor 5 3rd and sell them for 3 or 4 times what I paid, great.

But there is no way a 2nd + print is a first appearance. That’s like saying that owning a reprint of Action Comics #1 is the same as owning the original. I can get a 9.0 of a reprint for $50, whereas a 9.0 of the original sold for $3.2 million.

It’s just not the same.

If people are willing to pay for them, I have no issue with it, good for them. Good for me too as I’m making a bit off it right now, but no one should be selling issues saying that later printings are 1st appearances, I certainly don’t do that

Reply
J August 29, 2020 - 7:42 pm

After having read my article Chris, you know I completely agree with you. But other (read the other comments on this page for a sample) completely disagree with us.

Thanks for the comment,

Reply
Jared August 29, 2020 - 9:36 pm

Here’s a recent video detailing some the difference in values for first and subsequent prints. It’s a good watch for Chris. 🙂

Reply
Jared August 30, 2020 - 3:20 am

There is way more than a handful, Jake. You should research just how many and write an article about that too. I think you’ll walk away surprised by your findings.

Reply
Dave Stevens August 29, 2020 - 8:46 pm

I know why you feel the way you do, but you are wrong in this case and I don’t think you are likely to make out on your bet against later printings. Regardless of reprintings the issue that comes out first and all future reprintings are first appearances. The first appearance is the STORY that chronologically came out first. All Amazing Fantasy 15’s are the first appearance of Spider-Man and that is the story they contain. Reprints, in that case, do not compare in price to the issue dated Aug. 1962. But as people are interested eternally in reading that story, reprints do have value.
Today’s market (read: for moderns) is different. If a comic comes out that doesn’t pop from day one but gets a later printing, it may come to be that there is renewed interest in it later. In the event that the overlooked book had a later print with a cool cover or particularly low print run, this renewed interest will draw some to the later printing. Then you just get supply and demand and BAM, high prices for later printings. The reason why your bet against them isn’t going to pan out is the reasons for their popularity. If they’re rare, there aren’t going to be any more of them. Even reprintings of classic later printing exclusive covers are not their original later printing. A strange example is the ASM 300 chromium cover. That commands ridiculous money now in spite of being a reprint that came out years after the original issue.
I did enjoy your article but your feelings on reprints are unfortunately simply that. They won’t change a market that has long decided you are wrong.

Reply
J August 29, 2020 - 10:52 pm

Thanks for comment Dave. That may be the case. I’m arguing that the majority of these later printings are going to be forgotten in the future. I think the later printings of the Cosmic Ghost Rider in Thanos #13 are going to be some of those issues. Time will tell.

Best,

Reply
Dave Stevens August 30, 2020 - 3:49 pm

The most valuable Hulk 377 is the third printing that came out years later. The later printings of Thanos 13 will always have cosmic ghost rider to their credit. The biggest issue with the newer later printings is the change in the cover. It used to be the same art with different background or logo colors. Spider-Man 1 gold doesn’t have Spider-man fighting the Lizard and Calypso, and if it did, it probably wouldn’t outweigh the iconic cover #1 has. But if it had a minuscule print run, it might. Those decisions are up to the market and the reasons that they are sitting on now will not change later. And Hulk 180 is the first appearance of Wolverine.

Reply
Tim August 29, 2020 - 9:05 pm

I understand the point you are trying to make but this ship has sailed so to speak. “The market has spoken” and too much money has been put behind Venom #3 3rd and others. People who put money behind these later prints aren’t going to just sit back and watch/let people tank it. Later prints as firsts app. are here to stay.

Reply
J August 29, 2020 - 11:02 pm

I’m wondering how many of these other commenters are invested in later printings. It’s funny how many times this comment section has been about Venom #3 (a topic for my next blog) and how little anyone has said about what I argued for Cosmic Ghost Rider. Not a single comment has addressed that the later printings of Thanos #13 and how it will surge in value. They might be here for a little bit, but who can say how long they’ll stay?

Thanks for the comment,

Reply
Tim August 30, 2020 - 12:05 am

Questioning if people defending later prints is fair, just like its fair to wonder if some people are sour because they missed out on later prints that have become valuable. I personally bought later prints back when they were cheap when I noticed the trend gaining traction. Thanos 13 3rd in particular jumped out at me after re-reading the Thanos Wins trade and realizing that the cover for 3rd is the first panel you see CGR. It also makes for a great cover so it doesn’t need to be first cover to be a good cover. Also to my knowledge Thanos 13 3rd has been increasing in value for months without being talked up anywhere that I could see up until recently. As opposed to some of the modern reprint “keys” that have been talked up by one of you peers.

Reply
Jared August 30, 2020 - 2:52 am

I’m bringing up Venom 3 because it is the most recent and glaring example of proving my point and it makes your argument look silly.

This guy has the best info on the Internet when it comes to topics like this. The link is to the top 10 most valuable second prints that have been released over the last 20 years.

https://earlyretirementdiary.com/most-valuable-2nd-print-comic/

Reply
Ivan Roliz August 29, 2020 - 9:20 pm

Jake, your article makes a lot of good points. From my perspective as a collector, I viewed reprints as counterfeits to the first printed book. I have held that opinion for many years, while I walked by the 2nd and 3rd prints of Venom 3 on the shelf. I thought publishers were trying to squeeze more cash out of a book without paying the artists. Your article helps explain the sales points of Ultimate Fallout 2nd print when compared to the first print. The 2nd prints of Ultimate Fallout #4 has a smaller print run and I thought the sales price might over take the first print but it the phenomena never happened. Your articles arguments reflects the mindset of buyers willing to pay large amounts of money for a true first print instead a 2nd print book. Bravo, you solved the mystery. Now the question is, what will it take for the market to reset that perspective? My guess is when publishers go to far and make a 9th or a 10th print. That will cause buyers to realize something is wrong with their perspective. If we were to continuously reprint Venom 3 for 100 times then the value of Venom 3 would fall into bucket of reprints.

Reply
J August 29, 2020 - 10:50 pm

Hey Ivan,

I think that’s a great analysis. When publishers get to 6+ printings and start throwing everything but the kitchen sink on the cover, maybe it will correct. Thanks for the comment.

Best,

Reply
Justin Douback August 30, 2020 - 11:26 am

The original point is that the books out NOW will lose value later on. IF we get into a world with 6,7, 10 + printings whos to say what the market will deem most desireable and thus most valuable. The question wasnt will later printings remain more valuable to their 1st printing counterparts, it was will they hold value at all? Well, that depends on the stance on that particular issue/ 1st appearance at all… If miles morales popularity plummeted, ALL printings of ultimate fallout 4 would – not EXCLUSIVELY the later prints. As far as a “true 1st” argument – a later printing date does NOT change the story itself. If its printed 50 years later its still the 1st appearance just a later printing. A more apt description of what you mean, Jake, would be “1st published image” as weve also gain more and more attention in recent years. I see your point that some of these late printings are a trend and trends rise and fall, especially in the comic spec world. But to say they will/should be worth ONLY cover price is just wrong and has been wrong for a while now. Its also pretty naieve to not recognize that times do change. What once was considered rock solid truth might not be the same tomorow. There is also a whole new generation of collectors in this game now changing what has value/ what that value is. I AGREE – a lot of these prices might fall from their insane price points right now but VALUELESS? C’mon you cant reasonably tell us that if you could go back and buy a few Captain Marvel # 17 2nd prints when they were even rising to say $50 per copy that you wouldnt do it. And thats not even a 1st appearance, its a 2nd !!! Cameo !!! The point is just that the market decides what it is and what it wants and this generation of collectors/investors may just decide 20 years from now that these late printing 1st appearances ARE more valuable than their 1st prints..or at least worth more than $3.99.

Reply
J August 30, 2020 - 12:09 pm

A little embellishment for argument’s sake never hurt anyone. The reason I took such a radical stance is that there is a lot of money to be made by incentivizing people to buy later printings. This creates a false sense of demand when the majority are looking for that next Venom #3 3rd print (like the whole Black Winter thing recently) where you have just a lot of speculators buying up garbage. Will some later prints be worth money? Sure. But my point is that people should stay away from later printings altogether. It’s just gambling. I don’t think they are a wise investment and there are lots of other books out there that are much more stable and much less vulnerable to hype.

Reply
stephen bradley August 30, 2020 - 3:28 am

Excellent article!!! I agree and thank you for putting this out….Maybe it will help some people keep their C-notes for a rainy day.

Reply
J August 30, 2020 - 11:53 am

Hey Stephen, I wish more people just saw it for what it was, a thought provoking article on these things. Back to the trenches!

Thanks for the comment,

Reply
stephen bradley August 30, 2020 - 4:20 am

I read through a lot of the comments. CGC DOES at least list “second printing” for instance but will also still say 1st appearance in a slightly different location. What I believe is not important, but I speak anyways. Time is and mostly always been the yardstick that measures 1st and 2nd appearances….Content (or amount of) might be a “subjective” Yardstick to determine Cameo or 2nd Cameo…A combo of time and content might produce …, 1st full, 1st cameo, 2nd Cameo (last page)..etc….We can’t discard TIME because if we did we would have to find another Yardstick….Should CGC or Key Collector use time sometimes when you want and discard it later . We need a CCA for Graders/price guides to make a standard so the common collector does not get the wrong information and lose C-notes. You know back in the day when the USA had 13 colonies, each colony had their own currency(with exchange rates)….what a mess it was…they all decided on one currency the US Dollar….We need a US Dollar or a standard for appearances, as there is no harmony or consistency and someone has to be wrong, but in truth we currently are all right and wrong today. Tomorrow is a function of time and if we disregard what tomorrow brings then we are Here forever more. Again, Thank you Jake for this Awesome article.

Reply
J August 30, 2020 - 11:58 am

Exactly, Stephen! That’s what this comment section has definitely shown me. There is no universally agreed upon definition of 1st and 2nd and beyond. A lot of the commenters here are adamant that later printings ARE 1st appearances while many others are not. THAT is the exact discord that I believe will cause the drop in prices of these variants. It’s a limited resale market. Thanks for the comment and thanks for the compliment!

Reply
stephen Randalph bradley August 30, 2020 - 5:47 am

I had a thought and want to share it before its gone. Imagine this add and see if its right…does the word “Live” kind of misleading? Seems to me as this is what we have currently. Just my thoughts.

On February 25, 22-year-old Cassius Clay will Fight Sonny Liston “LIVE” for the World Championship! Go To HBO/payperview.com and reserve your seat now. 150.00 per household….Space VERY Limited!!! See It LIVE….Act Now!

Recorded LIVE on 2/25/1964

Reply
Fred Bruno August 30, 2020 - 7:36 am

I can see good points raised on both sides. I dont think it will be up to us. At the end of the day the market will decide. Don’t fight the market. Collect what you like and have fun!

Reply
Jared September 2, 2020 - 10:12 am

Why are you not permitting my comment Mr. I’ve been collecting modern comics for a year and know more than CGC and CBCS?

Reply
Jared August 30, 2020 - 6:18 pm

I can’t help myself…..

“I really started getting back into comic books about a year ago. In the years prior, I’d always enjoyed stopping by the comic shop once or twice a year to peruse, but I rarely purchased anything. My complete Ghost Rider collection sat in the same longbox, unmoved for close to a decade; life had happened and kept happening.”

And you’re trying to tell us what is and isn’t a First Appearance? Totally irresponsible man…..

Reply
Tom Viencek August 31, 2020 - 12:42 am

I can’t agree with a Jake more when it comes to first printings being the only first appearance. It’s funny, my broth and a friend of mine were having this exact conversation just this past Thursday. I know it’s not incumbent for me to provide a resume,but the three of us have been reading and collecting comics since elementary school,and are in our early to mid fourties. I personally started selling comics at shows in my teens and owned a comic book from 2008 to 2015 in Western Pa. In our experience, until very recently,this wasn’t a “thing.” I never sought out second, third,fourth,etc. printings,not did customers request them. I find these printings to be little more than glorified reprints. If you have money invested I wish you no Ill will and don’t want to see you lose your shirt. That being said,I won’t be spending my money on anything but first prints. Oh, and before anyone retorts with me being jealous I missed out on some big books,this trend is new enough I could jump in,I just don’t like the looks of the water.

Reply
Ryan August 31, 2020 - 1:54 am

Everyone, go throw out your Golden Record reprints. According to this they’re all going back to being worth pennies.

Reply
Kristopher Ryan August 31, 2020 - 2:17 am

People making sweeping statements about “the entire hobby” viewing later printings the same as first printings when it comes to later printings are just wrong. Sure, clearly some people do feel that way, but as a lifelong comic collector I know that’s not true if everyone.

You think those Marvel Milestones of X-Men #1 get treated the same as the 1st printing? What do you think those are? They’re reprints. Every printing after the first is a reprint.

There are, of course, examples of later printings being valuable. And even a few where the later printings are more valuable than the early ones, but they are by far the exception and not the rule.

This recent trend is bizarre. It’s possible it’s a real shift in the comic collecting works and might even last, but in reality we’re talking about reprints by definition.

Reply
Pete September 1, 2020 - 8:57 am

Congrats on creating such a toxic environment! Where’s that extension to eliminate comments when you need it, amirite? Lol! Too bad, you earned this mess!

Reply

Leave a Reply

%d bloggers like this: